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	<title>Comments on: Designing the Forum Auth by Post Count MOD Part I: Private Permissions</title>
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	<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/</link>
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		<title>By: Dog Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2627</link>
		<dc:creator>Dog Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/?p=187#comment-2627</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your explanations, they have helped me. I considered what you said about using groups, and I also took a look at ptirhiik&#039;s auth system for phpBB2 as well as the phpBB3 auth system. Both would work wonderfully if my site was just a forum, but since it&#039;s not, I have to implement my own system. This is why I am going with &quot;Zones&quot; which do not overlap. Each zone has its own sub-set of permissions, and then each zone has sub zones, these are the individual forums, gallery categories, calendars, etc. I just got global permissions working last night.

The thing I am going to do now, based on your information, is to implement &quot;Roles&quot;, which both auth systems I mentioned implement, though ptirhiik calls his &quot;presets&quot; Now, remember each zone is separate, so each zone will have its own role, which is a predefined set of permissions. How trhis will work is I will set the permissions for a Zone, save it as a role, and then a role id will be attached to all permission entries for users which match the role&#039;s permissions. Know that one user&#039;s permissions entry takes up one row per zone. I will probably use an MD5 hash for matching. This will allow me to either: 1) have the system automatically find out what role the user is and set the role id, or 2) allow me to manually give users roles.

With this, it is almost like groups, since I can view/sort users by role and zone, and I can see who has permissions assigned by a common role, and who is &quot;out in left field&quot; with permissions which don&#039;t match a role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your explanations, they have helped me. I considered what you said about using groups, and I also took a look at ptirhiik&#8217;s auth system for phpBB2 as well as the phpBB3 auth system. Both would work wonderfully if my site was just a forum, but since it&#8217;s not, I have to implement my own system. This is why I am going with &#8220;Zones&#8221; which do not overlap. Each zone has its own sub-set of permissions, and then each zone has sub zones, these are the individual forums, gallery categories, calendars, etc. I just got global permissions working last night.</p>
<p>The thing I am going to do now, based on your information, is to implement &#8220;Roles&#8221;, which both auth systems I mentioned implement, though ptirhiik calls his &#8220;presets&#8221; Now, remember each zone is separate, so each zone will have its own role, which is a predefined set of permissions. How trhis will work is I will set the permissions for a Zone, save it as a role, and then a role id will be attached to all permission entries for users which match the role&#8217;s permissions. Know that one user&#8217;s permissions entry takes up one row per zone. I will probably use an MD5 hash for matching. This will allow me to either: 1) have the system automatically find out what role the user is and set the role id, or 2) allow me to manually give users roles.</p>
<p>With this, it is almost like groups, since I can view/sort users by role and zone, and I can see who has permissions assigned by a common role, and who is &#8220;out in left field&#8221; with permissions which don&#8217;t match a role.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Rathbun</title>
		<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2626</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rathbun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/?p=187#comment-2626</guid>
		<description>I am far from being a security expert, but every security system I have worked with has been primarily group-based. In fact, in some cases in order to assign an individual user some sort of permission you have to great a group and add that user... even if they&#039;re the only user in that group. phpBB2 works best, in my opinion, with group rules rather than individual rules. I chatted with some folks on IRC to get an extremely basic overview (and by basic I mean about ten lines of conversation :lol: ) and phpBB3 is also slanted towards group roles.

If every user has a unique set of permissions then user-based is the way to go. But I don&#039;t think I have ever seen a system where literally every user has a set of permissions that are uniquely their own. Generally you create groups and assign permissions to groups. One group is called the &quot;Everyone&quot; group, and all users are in that group by default. An unregistered user is in the &quot;Guest&quot; group, and they have potentially different rights. And then there is the &quot;Admin&quot; group who owns the system. There&#039;s your security system at its most basic level. :) Then you start adding new groups that have permissions or roles somewhere in between &quot;Everyone&quot; and &quot;Admin&quot; and those become your special groups.

Typically the folks in these groups are the exceptions rather than the rule. Meaning the percentage of people with special permissions should be less than 5% of your total user population. Don&#039;t ask me where that number came from, I pulled it out of thin air. :)

I have to stop here or my anti-spam code is going to dump this comment to /dev/null :lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am far from being a security expert, but every security system I have worked with has been primarily group-based. In fact, in some cases in order to assign an individual user some sort of permission you have to great a group and add that user&#8230; even if they&#8217;re the only user in that group. phpBB2 works best, in my opinion, with group rules rather than individual rules. I chatted with some folks on IRC to get an extremely basic overview (and by basic I mean about ten lines of conversation <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' />  ) and phpBB3 is also slanted towards group roles.</p>
<p>If every user has a unique set of permissions then user-based is the way to go. But I don&#8217;t think I have ever seen a system where literally every user has a set of permissions that are uniquely their own. Generally you create groups and assign permissions to groups. One group is called the &#8220;Everyone&#8221; group, and all users are in that group by default. An unregistered user is in the &#8220;Guest&#8221; group, and they have potentially different rights. And then there is the &#8220;Admin&#8221; group who owns the system. There&#8217;s your security system at its most basic level. <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Then you start adding new groups that have permissions or roles somewhere in between &#8220;Everyone&#8221; and &#8220;Admin&#8221; and those become your special groups.</p>
<p>Typically the folks in these groups are the exceptions rather than the rule. Meaning the percentage of people with special permissions should be less than 5% of your total user population. Don&#8217;t ask me where that number came from, I pulled it out of thin air. <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I have to stop here or my anti-spam code is going to dump this comment to /dev/null <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dog Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator>Dog Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/?p=187#comment-2625</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m actually in the process of writing a slightly different permissions system for my site, since it incoporates much more than forums and they all need authorizations. I was getting frustrated with each feature of my site having a different auths table and a different auths control panel, so I decided to write a &quot;Zones&quot;-based system instead. I have it explained in this post as well as the next one: http://macgui.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=187939#187939

However, I have some doubts about how I designed it. For example, it completely removes the groups functionality. My site, as of now, has no groups at all. I am now unsure of whether this was the right thing to do or not.

The system works, but one of the features it is supposed to provide such as &#039;global&#039; permissions are not functioning yet. One example of a global would be a user who can moderate all forums. I don&#039;t have the part of the admin panel which allows me to actually aassign permissions to users finished yet, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually in the process of writing a slightly different permissions system for my site, since it incoporates much more than forums and they all need authorizations. I was getting frustrated with each feature of my site having a different auths table and a different auths control panel, so I decided to write a &#8220;Zones&#8221;-based system instead. I have it explained in this post as well as the next one: <a href="http://macgui.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=187939#187939" rel="nofollow">http://macgui.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=187939#187939</a></p>
<p>However, I have some doubts about how I designed it. For example, it completely removes the groups functionality. My site, as of now, has no groups at all. I am now unsure of whether this was the right thing to do or not.</p>
<p>The system works, but one of the features it is supposed to provide such as &#8216;global&#8217; permissions are not functioning yet. One example of a global would be a user who can moderate all forums. I don&#8217;t have the part of the admin panel which allows me to actually aassign permissions to users finished yet, either.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Rathbun</title>
		<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Rathbun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/?p=187#comment-2624</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a fair question. :) Mainly it&#039; because it&#039;s too hard to remember where they are. In most security applications you are advised to set up groups, and grant permissions to groups, and then assign users to groups. That way you only have one place to go to figure out an access rights issue. If you start granting things to individual users, then you have to check all of your individual users.

Think about how phpBB works. When you click on a group, you can see the permissions for that group. You can use the user group control panel (groupcp.php) to see who is a member of that group. But without going into the database, can you easily determine which user has been granted permissions on a specific forum? Not really. :)

I do everything with groups, and it&#039;s much easier to manage. I think that&#039;s a fairly standard practice. Do you use individual user permissions? If so, do you find them easy to track and manage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a fair question. <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Mainly it&#8217; because it&#8217;s too hard to remember where they are. In most security applications you are advised to set up groups, and grant permissions to groups, and then assign users to groups. That way you only have one place to go to figure out an access rights issue. If you start granting things to individual users, then you have to check all of your individual users.</p>
<p>Think about how phpBB works. When you click on a group, you can see the permissions for that group. You can use the user group control panel (groupcp.php) to see who is a member of that group. But without going into the database, can you easily determine which user has been granted permissions on a specific forum? Not really. <img src='http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I do everything with groups, and it&#8217;s much easier to manage. I think that&#8217;s a fairly standard practice. Do you use individual user permissions? If so, do you find them easy to track and manage?</p>
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		<title>By: Dog Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/2008/04/07/designing-the-forum-auth-by-post-count-mod-part-i-private-permissions/comment-page-1/#comment-2623</link>
		<dc:creator>Dog Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phpbbdoctor.com/blog/?p=187#comment-2623</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t you like assigning permisisons on a per-user basis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t you like assigning permisisons on a per-user basis?</p>
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